# How was the Elm goto; talk?

**URL:** <https://discourse.elm-lang.org/t/how-was-the-elm-goto-talk/9150>\
**Category:** Request Feedback\
**Created:** [May 22, 2023, 5:48pm UTC](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/t/how-was-the-elm-goto-talk/9150 "2023-05-22T17:48:26Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![forensor](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex035/user_avatar/discourse.elm-lang.org/forensor/32/4826_2.png) [@forensor](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/u/forensor)\
**Post date:** [May 22, 2023, 5:48pm UTC](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/t/how-was-the-elm-goto-talk/9150/1 "2023-05-22T17:48:27Z")

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Anything that can be shared? Are we going to see cool things in a close future? 😀

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**Author:** ![eelcoh](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex035/user_avatar/discourse.elm-lang.org/eelcoh/32/4909_2.png) [@eelcoh](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/u/eelcoh)\
**Post date:** [May 23, 2023, 5:42am UTC](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/t/how-was-the-elm-goto-talk/9150/2 "2023-05-23T05:42:35Z")

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> <https://twitter.com/FrancescoC/status/1660591792780111872>

Don’t get your hopes up high.

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**Author:** ![Laurent](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex035/user_avatar/discourse.elm-lang.org/laurent/32/2051_2.png) [@Laurent](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/u/Laurent)\
**Post date:** [May 23, 2023, 12:16pm UTC](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/t/how-was-the-elm-goto-talk/9150/3 "2023-05-23T12:16:11Z")

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PostgreSQL compared to “elm-db”. Interesting 🤔

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**Author:** ![eelcoh](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex035/user_avatar/discourse.elm-lang.org/eelcoh/32/4909_2.png) [@eelcoh](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/u/eelcoh)\
**Post date:** [May 23, 2023, 6:27pm UTC](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/t/how-was-the-elm-goto-talk/9150/4 "2023-05-23T18:27:43Z")

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Sure. But it looks like that is all we’ll ever know.

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**Author:** ![forensor](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex035/user_avatar/discourse.elm-lang.org/forensor/32/4826_2.png) [@forensor](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/u/forensor)\
**Post date:** [May 23, 2023, 6:41pm UTC](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/t/how-was-the-elm-goto-talk/9150/5 "2023-05-23T18:41:03Z")

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Yup, that’s my concern… I find Elm usable, but some tangible progress of the language would be cool, especially after 4 years…

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**Author:** ![rupert](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex035/user_avatar/discourse.elm-lang.org/rupert/32/1775_2.png) [@rupert](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/u/rupert)\
**Post date:** [May 24, 2023, 8:25am UTC](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/t/how-was-the-elm-goto-talk/9150/6 "2023-05-24T08:25:12Z")

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SQL without NULL? (the billion dollar mistake).

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**Author:** ![eelcoh](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex035/user_avatar/discourse.elm-lang.org/eelcoh/32/4909_2.png) [@eelcoh](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/u/eelcoh)\
**Post date:** [May 24, 2023, 4:29pm UTC](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/t/how-was-the-elm-goto-talk/9150/7 "2023-05-24T16:29:29Z")

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And immutable, like Datomic.

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**Author:** ![solificati](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@solificati](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/u/solificati)\
**Post date:** [May 24, 2023, 9:23pm UTC](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/t/how-was-the-elm-goto-talk/9150/8 "2023-05-24T21:23:12Z")

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> [@rupert](#):
>
> SQL without NULL? (the billion dollar mistake).

That quote was about null references. Null in SQL is something different. One would argue that nullable columns are closer to real unions than `Maybe`.

I mean what’s the alternative there? Instead of `COALESCE` I would need to write `Maybe.withDefault`?

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**Author:** ![heyakyra](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex035/user_avatar/discourse.elm-lang.org/heyakyra/32/2295_2.png) [@heyakyra](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/u/heyakyra)\
**Post date:** [May 24, 2023, 11:24pm UTC](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/t/how-was-the-elm-goto-talk/9150/9 "2023-05-24T23:24:33Z")

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> [@forensor](#):
>
> Anything that can be shared?

It was a bit ambiguous. I understand at least photos and such should not be shared (the tweet above sparked a lot of speculation in the Slack community), but maybe @evancz can say whether detailed notes and summary/reflection is okay.

> [@forensor](#):
>
> Are we going to see cool things in a close future? 😀

Absolutely, yes. (Well, unsure how soon)

Seeing the innovative leaps and jumps that the project is able to make this way should really make us appreciate the careful approach to releases and publicity, despite our anxious eagerness to know what’s coming next. We can’t have it both ways—the elegance of Elm is only possible because of the approach taken to its development, and we’ve also been given a preview into the future of making that more sustainable with [Elm.studio and an Elm Foundation](https://twitter.com/evancz/status/1527297077251739648).

Some of the really interesting stuff wasn’t just the technical demonstration, but also the thinking that he put into why he landed at the approach that he did…and the benefits for software development and team organization that can come from it. We all know Evan to be a real innovator who takes the time to understand the whole breadth and scope of the problems in the space (and surrounding space) before approaching a solution, and I have to say it really seems like he’s delivering again in a way that is sure to spark a huge resurgence for Elm and an inspiration to other projects to come. Sorry to be vague!

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**Author:** ![Laurent](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex035/user_avatar/discourse.elm-lang.org/laurent/32/2051_2.png) [@Laurent](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/u/Laurent)\
**Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 12:08pm UTC](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/t/how-was-the-elm-goto-talk/9150/10 "2023-05-25T12:08:52Z")

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> maybe @evancz can say whether detailed notes and summary/reflection is okay

Why so much secret? Did all the people who went there sign a non disclosure agreement? Is the Elm community now divided between the illuminated ones and the mere others who couldn’t attend to the talk? Are you not permitted to speak without the authorization of the Master? I hope not because if so there is something rotten in the talk of Aarhus…

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**Author:** ![lydell](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex035/user_avatar/discourse.elm-lang.org/lydell/32/178_2.png) [@lydell](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/u/lydell)\
**Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 12:24pm UTC](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/t/how-was-the-elm-goto-talk/9150/11 "2023-05-25T12:24:18Z")

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@Laurent

A quote from a few minutes into the presentation, said in the usual charming Evan way:

> Oh, I meant to mention this at the beginning. I wanted to ask to do this just in person, so it’s ok to like take photos and stuff but please save them until the actual thing comes out since I’ve been kind of a shy person since around this time 2019 I’d been online for a long time and I was kind of burnt out on being in the public eye and having a lot of people telling me what I should do and how quickly I should do it etc, etc.

I guess it’s up to each viewer to heed that request.

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**Author:** ![Laurent](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex035/user_avatar/discourse.elm-lang.org/laurent/32/2051_2.png) [@Laurent](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/u/Laurent)\
**Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 12:36pm UTC](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/t/how-was-the-elm-goto-talk/9150/12 "2023-05-25T12:36:07Z")

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Oh I see. It’s to avoid the burden of the whole community requests etc. Thanks for the clarification @lydell . Still, silencing a conference is somewhat antinomic. The [Streisand effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect) is to be expected 😉

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**Author:** ![heyakyra](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex035/user_avatar/discourse.elm-lang.org/heyakyra/32/2295_2.png) [@heyakyra](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/u/heyakyra)\
**Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 2:55pm UTC](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/t/how-was-the-elm-goto-talk/9150/13 "2023-05-25T14:55:20Z")

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> [@Laurent](#):
>
> the illuminated ones

Interesting way to glorify a makeshift focus group of conference attendees, but like has been said, we’re trying to respect the wishes of the project maintainer who uses time and public input very intentionally to guide the direction of Elm.

It would be antinomic to expect more of the great results of his process without allowing him the time and space to follow said process.

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**Author:** ![forensor](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex035/user_avatar/discourse.elm-lang.org/forensor/32/4826_2.png) [@forensor](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/u/forensor)\
**Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 3:34pm UTC](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/t/how-was-the-elm-goto-talk/9150/14 "2023-05-25T15:34:19Z")

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Np at all, thx for your sharing! 😃. Ofc I know anything Evan releases will be polished to the end beyond, but I’d love to see status updates more often 😔

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**Author:** ![KasMA1990](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex035/user_avatar/discourse.elm-lang.org/kasma1990/32/2115_2.png) [@KasMA1990](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/u/KasMA1990)\
**Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 3:36pm UTC](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/t/how-was-the-elm-goto-talk/9150/15 "2023-05-25T15:36:58Z")

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> [@heyakyra](#):
>
> a makeshift focus group of conference attendees

To be fair, it’s hard to know from the outside that a conference presentation is being used for focus testing. A bit of expectation management in the community ahead of the presentation might have been the nicest solution 🙂

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**Author:** ![heyakyra](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex035/user_avatar/discourse.elm-lang.org/heyakyra/32/2295_2.png) [@heyakyra](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/u/heyakyra)\
**Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 3:48pm UTC](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/t/how-was-the-elm-goto-talk/9150/16 "2023-05-25T15:48:05Z")

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> [@KasMA1990](#):
>
> A bit of expectation management in the community ahead of the presentation

Yes, very true. Such as the very description of the presentation

> NOTE: My goal is to get some early feedback from the in-person audience, so the video will be held back for now. I am not announcing a release, and [the roadmap](https://github.com/elm/compiler/blob/master/roadmap.md) and [this status update](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/t/status-update-3-nov-2021/7870) are still the primary documents for long-time Elm users to set expectations about this work.

> **[Elm on The Backend](https://gotoaarhus.com/2023/sessions/2529/elm-on-the-backend)**
>
> Conference talk with Evan Czaplicki at GOTO Aarhus 2023

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**Author:** ![KasMA1990](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex035/user_avatar/discourse.elm-lang.org/kasma1990/32/2115_2.png) [@KasMA1990](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/u/KasMA1990)\
**Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 4:06pm UTC](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/t/how-was-the-elm-goto-talk/9150/17 "2023-05-25T16:06:30Z")

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> [@heyakyra](#):
>
> Yes, very true. Such as the very description of the presentation

I would think a post on here about it for example would have been much more effective. I think most people who hear that there is a presentation will not be visiting that site for example. But I digress 😊

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**Author:** ![Laurent](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex035/user_avatar/discourse.elm-lang.org/laurent/32/2051_2.png) [@Laurent](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/u/Laurent)\
**Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 8:55pm UTC](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/t/how-was-the-elm-goto-talk/9150/18 "2023-05-25T20:55:39Z")

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> NOTE: My goal is to get some early feedback from the in-person audience, so the video will be held back for now.

The laws of causality would be broken if a video posted after the event could retroactively prevent getting some early feedback from the in-person audience of that event. That’s why this secrecy was hard to understand, even if _I did read_ the description of the presentation before the event.

Now thanks to [@lydell’s post](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/t/how-was-the-elm-goto-talk/9150/11) I know that Evan wanted to avoid too much pressure with everyone telling him what to do if all the details are known. And _that_, I can totally understand.

As @KasMA1990 said a bit more explanations would not have hurt…

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**Author:** ![eelcoh](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex035/user_avatar/discourse.elm-lang.org/eelcoh/32/4909_2.png) [@eelcoh](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/u/eelcoh)\
**Post date:** [May 25, 2023, 9:14pm UTC](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/t/how-was-the-elm-goto-talk/9150/19 "2023-05-25T21:14:14Z")

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> (the tweet above sparked a lot of speculation in the Slack community)

> **[Slack is your productivity platform](https://elmlang.slack.com/?redir=%2Farchives%2FC0K384K4Y%2Fp1684744693711269%3Fname%3DC0K384K4Y%26perma%3D1684744693711269)**
>
> Slack is a new way to communicate with your team. It’s faster, better organized, and more secure than email.

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**Author:** ![elmdev](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/919ad9/32.png) [@elmdev](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/u/elmdev)\
**Post date:** [May 27, 2023, 7:58am UTC](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/t/how-was-the-elm-goto-talk/9150/20 "2023-05-27T07:58:10Z")

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I somehow suspect that the backend community will not take kindly to all the weird community management with Elm. There a lot of very cool tools there and a new one where its sister frontend project often feels abandoned is not going to attract people

[Next page](https://discourse.elm-lang.org/t/how-was-the-elm-goto-talk/9150.md?page=2)