Since Elm is compile to js code, is it possible to go svelte’s approach to directly compile to raw dom manipulation, and no vdom?

I typically look at this benchmark to get a feeling for how different rendering systems compare. Try going to the interactive results and putting in: vanillajs-keyed elm-v0.19.1-3-keyed svelte-v3.23.0-keyed react-v16.8.6-keyed react-redux-v16.8.6 + 7.1.0-keyed The aggregated results I am seeing a…

Hi, Evan, thanks for this detailed explanation, surprised me! I naively thought precise dom manipulation is better than virtual DOM diffing update. seems like svelte has some advantages over other freamwork, and it’s all due to the compile process. so this question just came to my head. I think you …

[image] evancz: My sense is that projects significantly slower than Elm and Svelte are working fine for a lot of people. Although true, in order to sell Elm it really helps to claim Elm is faster!

[image] Naserdin: Hi, Evan, thanks for this detailed explanation, surprised me! I naively thought precise dom manipulation is better than virtual DOM diffing update. No problem! I think Svelte was saying “faster than virtual DOM” in a lot of their public communication, so I think many people …

I should add, I do not actually know what Svelte is doing specifically. I would personally be interested in seeing a little breakdown of their key techniques. Maybe there are lessons that could be applied in Elm. Would be very curious to understand more! And maybe it’s something that could be explo…

Rich here - Svelte creator (and Elm admirer), someone pointed me at this thread. I’ve written a bit more about why a Svelte eschews the virtual DOM at https://svelte.dev/blog/virtual-dom-is-pure-overhead - the tl;dr is that the real problem with VDOM isn’t the diffing, it’s the fact that you have to…

[image] Rich-Harris: I’m not very familiar with how Elm works but I’d imagine the guarantees provided by the language enable it to do this step a lot more efficiently than, say, React. The mechanism Elm uses to avoid re-computing on every state change is Html.lazy (and lazy2, and so on, if th…

I’m not seeing any keyed version of the Elm benchmark. Did you mean non-keyed? Aside from that, I would question how useful these benchmarks are. My understanding of Svelte is that these results require no extra work for the developer, which is not the case in Elm. Where I work, we avoid using Html…

Html.Lazy is definitely tricky. It’s really easy to put in place, but also really hard to keep make it keep work and not fail on you silently because of “spooky actions at at distance”. IMO, this could be solved through static analysis (probably through some other means too), and I proposed an elm-…

Proper use of Html.lazy is indeed tricky. It is, however, also key to bringing down the rendering and diffing costs. One thing that Elm could do with no changes to the language or the library APIs is make the equality test in Html.lazy go a bit deeper. The most frequent errors I’ve seen with Html.la…

Can the compiler skip virtual DOM?

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Topic		Replies	Views
Could updating the DOM directly instead of the virtual dom get any advantage for elm? (the way it does for svelte) Learn	16	5031	August 1, 2019
How Svelte and Elm compare? Learn	6	3470	August 22, 2022
Elm without the virtual DOM? Request Feedback	2	611	February 4, 2024
Any disadvantage in always using Html.lazy? Learn	22	5173	August 14, 2019
How to do CSS in elm? Learn	26	23353	March 19, 2018

Can the compiler skip virtual DOM?

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