Sure. But it looks like that is all we’ll ever know.
Yup, that’s my concern… I find Elm usable, but some tangible progress of the language would be cool, especially after 4 years…
SQL without NULL? (the billion dollar mistake).
And immutable, like Datomic.
That quote was about null references. Null in SQL is something different. One would argue that nullable columns are closer to real unions than
I mean what’s the alternative there? Instead of
COALESCE I would need to write
It was a bit ambiguous. I understand at least photos and such should not be shared (the tweet above sparked a lot of speculation in the Slack community), but maybe @evancz can say whether detailed notes and summary/reflection is okay.
Absolutely, yes. (Well, unsure how soon)
Seeing the innovative leaps and jumps that the project is able to make this way should really make us appreciate the careful approach to releases and publicity, despite our anxious eagerness to know what’s coming next. We can’t have it both ways—the elegance of Elm is only possible because of the approach taken to its development, and we’ve also been given a preview into the future of making that more sustainable with Elm.studio and an Elm Foundation.
Some of the really interesting stuff wasn’t just the technical demonstration, but also the thinking that he put into why he landed at the approach that he did…and the benefits for software development and team organization that can come from it. We all know Evan to be a real innovator who takes the time to understand the whole breadth and scope of the problems in the space (and surrounding space) before approaching a solution, and I have to say it really seems like he’s delivering again in a way that is sure to spark a huge resurgence for Elm and an inspiration to other projects to come. Sorry to be vague!
maybe @evancz can say whether detailed notes and summary/reflection is okay
Why so much secret? Did all the people who went there sign a non disclosure agreement? Is the Elm community now divided between the illuminated ones and the mere others who couldn’t attend to the talk? Are you not permitted to speak without the authorization of the Master? I hope not because if so there is something rotten in the talk of Aarhus…
A quote from a few minutes into the presentation, said in the usual charming Evan way:
Oh, I meant to mention this at the beginning. I wanted to ask to do this just in person, so it’s ok to like take photos and stuff but please save them until the actual thing comes out since I’ve been kind of a shy person since around this time 2019 I’d been online for a long time and I was kind of burnt out on being in the public eye and having a lot of people telling me what I should do and how quickly I should do it etc, etc.
I guess it’s up to each viewer to heed that request.
Oh I see. It’s to avoid the burden of the whole community requests etc. Thanks for the clarification @lydell . Still, silencing a conference is somewhat antinomic. The Streisand effect is to be expected
Interesting way to glorify a makeshift focus group of conference attendees, but like has been said, we’re trying to respect the wishes of the project maintainer who uses time and public input very intentionally to guide the direction of Elm.
It would be antinomic to expect more of the great results of his process without allowing him the time and space to follow said process.
Np at all, thx for your sharing! . Ofc I know anything Evan releases will be polished to the end beyond, but I’d love to see status updates more often
To be fair, it’s hard to know from the outside that a conference presentation is being used for focus testing. A bit of expectation management in the community ahead of the presentation might have been the nicest solution
Yes, very true. Such as the very description of the presentation
NOTE: My goal is to get some early feedback from the in-person audience, so the video will be held back for now. I am not announcing a release, and the roadmap and this status update are still the primary documents for long-time Elm users to set expectations about this work.
I would think a post on here about it for example would have been much more effective. I think most people who hear that there is a presentation will not be visiting that site for example. But I digress
NOTE: My goal is to get some early feedback from the in-person audience, so the video will be held back for now.
The laws of causality would be broken if a video posted after the event could retroactively prevent getting some early feedback from the in-person audience of that event. That’s why this secrecy was hard to understand, even if I did read the description of the presentation before the event.
Now thanks to @lydell’s post I know that Evan wanted to avoid too much pressure with everyone telling him what to do if all the details are known. And that, I can totally understand.
As @KasMA1990 said a bit more explanations would not have hurt…
(the tweet above sparked a lot of speculation in the Slack community)
I somehow suspect that the backend community will not take kindly to all the weird community management with Elm. There a lot of very cool tools there and a new one where its sister frontend project often feels abandoned is not going to attract people
Every Project has its quirks here and there. And I think it is not about attracting people, rather then to create something different. I’d say just accept that as how it is, and it’ll go fine. There is no benefit/point in mentioning these things all the time and not being constructive about it. It just piles up as saltiness.
Thank you for saying so @eimfach, although I do think it is about attracting people—it’s important to do so for the long term on the basis of being the most ergonomic, well-designed, and technically superior language. At the current stage, this as all thanks to Evan’s research project approach, but bear in mind that this is only a temporary stage as he has laid out as clearly as he can manage to do through talks and writing.
I experience the same anxiety and desire for updates as everyone else, but my desire for the project to succeed isn’t so short-sighted to demand that the person who put in the investigation, the analysis, the vision, and the hundreds (thousands?) of hours of work to make it what it is just abandon his process and personal boundaries to fulfil my short-term wants. Let’s just take a gamble and see if what gets released was worth the wait, shall we? I know where I’m putting my money.
The same could be said for every other platform, but that seems a bit silly when the talk itself was not announced here. I hope we can just try to sympathize with his position.
Yes, it has been said through his writing and other talks as well. Maybe it was implicit in the GOTO description, but I feel like the desire for more info can morph into having a kind of hurtful attitude that I hope we can try to keep in check. From his private git activity, he is very active and from what has come out about this talk it’s clear that we will get something soon, and I think we should try to understand rather than demand demand demand (as much as even I have done or been tempted to do).
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