MASCOT ALERT: introducing "Jeff", the Jefferson Elm for Elm Lang 🌳

[JonathanMcCormickJr]

This is Jeff.

He is a mascot I made for the Elm community.

He is in the public domain.

Repo:

jeff

[Laurent]

Hidden message in “T & M” ?

[perkee]

Thomas and Martha Jefferson? Sure hope not.

[JonathanMcCormickJr]

The lore for Jeff is documented in the Codeberg page: JonathanMcCormickJr/jeff: Art for Jeff: the Jefferson Elm for the Elm Programming Language - Codeberg.org

“T&M” does indeed stand for Thomas and Martha Jefferson. Elm trees have historically lived lifespans well into the 3-figures. So it’s at least theoretically possible there’s a living elm tree that would have been alive at the time they were a couple. Dutch elm disease has admittedly made this less likely, unfortunately.

[wolfadex]

I do wonder about the inclusion of the Jeffersons. Elm is a global language and this would bind it more to the US.

[JonathanMcCormickJr]

That’s a fair concern. My approach with this was to fit Jeff’s lore to the most natural logical connections to him. In this case, it was something like:

"Elm Lang" -> "Elm tree" -> "Ulmus americana 'Jefferson'" -> "Thomas & Martha Jefferson"

Taking a step into hypothetical land, if we had a “Space Lang” with a rocket mascot showing the initials “YG” (or, better yet, “Ю. А. Гагарин”) for Soviet cosmonaut “Yuri Gagarin”, the lore logic might flow like this:

"Space" -> "humans in space" -> "first human in space" -> "Yuri Gagarin"

So this isn’t inherently a national/regional thing. It’s just what flowed most naturally (in my mind, at least). With that said, Thomas Jefferson did have an impact that extended far beyond the US. Despite his personal shortcomings in applying the principles he espoused, his writings have been influential in various human rights movements around the world, for example.

[LupusMichaelis]

@JonathanMcCormickJr

Despite his personal shortcomings

Sure, slavery is a personal shortcoming

[Laurent]

Nowadays, if attribution is ok, mascot generation is a prompt away: “mascot for the Elm programming language”.

[sam1729]

I appreciate the enthusiasm and effort to contribute to the community.

It’s true the Thomas Jefferson did, and is known for, other important things than enslaving and raping people. But it’s a pretty big thing to choose to overlook, to put it very mildly. This appears to be for the sake of some cute word-association coincidences.

Even in the most cynical/nihilist view, if you don’t care whether Elm is being associated with truly awful stuff (please read about what slavery was actually like in the US), there’s no reason to introduce additional random symbolism that has no particular significance to the language, its philosophy, or its community.

There’s another unfortunate naming issue, which if you listen to Evan’s 2023 Strange Loop talk, “The Economics of Programming Languages”, where he talks about the “Jeff” problem.

[lpil]

Now that I have looked up Martha and Thomas Jefferson and learnt who they are I must say it is very USA centric. I don’t really know how folks in USA feel about that portion of the nation’s history, but I find a reference to a slaver in a cartoon mascot distasteful and surprising.

I would feel especially uncomfortable talking to people of colour about Elm if it were to prominently have references to slavery. I doubt it would make them feel welcome.

[JonathanMcCormickJr]

Thank you all for your feedback. It seems like a lot of people would rather avoid any perceived ties to historical injustice. There’s certainly merit in that goal.

Would this be achieved in the community’s opinion if the heart were to be blank (as shown below)? It would lose the ties to Thomas and Martha but would retain connotations of love, especially of Elm programmers’ love for the functional paradigm and compile-time correctness checks.

[wondible]

Perhaps it could instead contain FP (Functional Programming) or something similar?

[kentookura]

Carvings are harmful to trees and can even lead to their death. To carve up a tree is to be neglectful of the environment. The implicit story told by the image is really at odds with the intended meaning.

Some might say “it’s not that deep”, but a central value of the Elm community is thoughtful design, and a mascot should represent these values on all levels.

[edkelly303]

For what it’s worth, and just my personal view: I don’t feel like Elm really needs a mascot. It is not a very cutesy language (we don’t use cutesy package names, for example). And I think the tangram works fine already as a visual identity.

[mello_moose]

Jeff is amazing, I love it!

[JonathanMcCormickJr]

That’s a good idea, @wondible

Jeff with “FP” heart:

[JonathanMcCormickJr]

That’s a fair point, @kentookura. Here’s Jeff with his bark intact:

[JonathanMcCormickJr]

Thanks @mello_moose . That means a lot!

Jeff holding back tears: